Curse

Super_Nerd0 · Aug 12, 2006, 06:24 PM // 18:24

/flamed

im j/k its actually very good!
/signed

unholy guardian · Aug 12, 2006, 07:36 PM // 19:36

Really i be happy to just use this class for a cloak

unverified · Aug 22, 2006, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Other potential skills for this class could include "misdirection" skills... since it's your class, i'm not gonna do full write-ups but examples include:

Misdirection: In pvp, creates a "ping" on the enemy radar map... in pve, it draws the closest group of enemies to that spot towards the ping... (This could, in theory be combined with the "item" part of Dummy Item... could call it "Baiting the Trap," that way you could combine the Dummy Item lure with any trap the char could set... and potentially give the char a couple traps to use it with without the char having to be a ranger as well).

Hostility: In pvp, has little use, but makes allies (not party members) "green but potential targets" like animals in pve (or possibly even being targeted by "next target" keys)... making them targetable and subject to area-effect spells, bad news for ranger pets... but the main use is in pve, where it makes non-alike enemy groups attack each other, if they're close enough (consistently).

Infighting: In pvp, it makes party members (of the opposing party) targetable by their own, making area-effect overlap an issue at least (again, possibly with the "next target" attack issue). Again, the main idea of this is for pve, where it makes an enemy group fight itself as long as (1) the effect lasts, and (2) no other enemies show up.

other potential skills could include: a stance that negates terrain effects, a stance that has a chance to move through traps without setting them off, a stance where you can use your cloak to increase your armor v. physical, a trap (marbles) that does nothing but knock down foes, a trap that "distracts" foes and makes it harder for them to spot "stealthed" characters, a "noisy" trap that "unstealths" stealthed foes, a signet that prevents a target foe from "stealthing," and maybe a signet "unstealths" the area...

Potentially, the Stealth attribute could reduce the aggro circle slightly per level as well (maybe by 1-2% of its diameter per level).

Cloaks could be the off-hand, and potentially increase your evasion chance (by 1-5% or so, but works even with skill evasion chances), with the cloaks having that ability at about the same frequency as shields reduce damage.

Knives could (for variety's sake, and rather than ending up as merely one-hand daggers and having people wonder why dagger mastery won't work with them) be thrown weapons with a fairly short range (and about dagger damage); potential skins could include darts, star and spike shuriken, and even small throwing axes, stones, and such in addition to knives...

And yes, such a class would challenge the supremacy of runners, but if done in a manner that is comparable in effect to runners, it would not make them useless, just create an alternate possibilitiy to the endless tide of warrior/monks. Given a tightly-packed group of monsters (or several) such as in most areas that get run frequently (especially on the way to Droknar's Forge), it'd be hard to sneak past all the groups, even if you have means of prolonging the effect, and especially if you're "active" stealth is short-lived and you have to rely on a reduced aggro circle while recharging... (especially since you can't see wurms until they attack).

And besides, sneaking past an army makes a lot more sense than running by them...

PoisonPotion · Aug 22, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

/SIGNED

In all RPG/MMO i play i always take the Assassin/Stealthy one,i love being in the back of the ennemy and he dont even know

Only fact,even if he isint a dammage dealer an Armor 70 than a Armor 55-65 whould be better i think.
And it whould be cool to see huge dice rolling to see if your Gamble skill succede xD.

~PoisonPotion

SaosiN17 · Aug 23, 2006, 08:42 PM // 20:42

Basically an assassin copy but with stealth... It seems you can't grasp the concept of game mechanics, so I will explain something to you. You can't have skills that manipulate the UI which is exactly what stealth does. It's nice that you can come up with semi-creative names and create really broken mechanics that don't have a home in guildwars but to me this type of class would have a home somewhere else, like WOW. Which is basically where all the ideas came from in the first place.

Trevor Reznik · Aug 24, 2006, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Stealth is a horrible idea in any form. Further, having many of your skills be completely random is ridiculously wrong. Despite being able to hide, this class will have no use in PvP and is therefore useless.

unverified · Aug 24, 2006, 06:10 PM // 18:10

The concept of the stealthy character is a staple of the fantasy genre and has been since the beginning... to claim that WoW created stealth is like trying to claim that they created warriors too... (now as far as the individual skills, I have no idea; I've never played any of the Warcraft games).

Admittedly, stealth would make things harder; after all, the monsters get whatever classes the pcs get, so stealth monsters would be as much of a headache as... wurms... which are already in the game; although most stealth monsters would be a lot easier to kill...

Stealth, misdirection, and espionage are part of the real world. Throwing a stick (pinging the enemy's radar) to distract the enemy so you can sneak by makes a whole lot more sense than running past them at full speed and relying on your hit points to keep you from dying.

I'm not saying this class is perfect; I personally don't care for the Gambling idea, don't think you should be able to interfere with enemy chat, and probably would have gone myself with the attributes of Stealth (hiding, and primary), Misdirection (confusing the enemy), Observation (detecting stealth and such), and Throwing Mastery (a weapon skill with small thrown weapons) - making it pretty much a pure non-spellcasting class.

And don't forget that any new class releases will have new skills released for the other classes, and any new ability is likely to have countermeasures among those new skills.

And as far as pvp goes, being able to confuse the enemy is not something to discount lightly. All other things being equal, the pvp team that works together the best is the one most likely to win. The point of a stealth class (done right) is not to create uber-effective invisible attackers, but to be able to either get in a good single shot (stealth nukers, stealth trappers) or to disrupt the enemy so that the rest of the team can do the job.

That said, there are a lot of people that just don't care about pvp at all, so even if it were "useless for pvp," it'd still wouldn't be useless (although it's a safe bet that a-net would ensure that the class was balanced for both pve and pvp).

actionjack · Aug 24, 2006, 06:59 PM // 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by unverified

The concept of the stealthy character is a staple of the fantasy genre and has been since the beginning... to claim that WoW created stealth is like trying to claim that they created warriors too... (now as far as the individual skills, I have no idea; I've never played any of the Warcraft games).

Admittedly, stealth would make things harder; after all, the monsters get whatever classes the pcs get, so stealth monsters would be as much of a headache as... wurms... which are already in the game; although most stealth monsters would be a lot easier to kill...

Stealth, misdirection, and espionage are part of the real world. Throwing a stick (pinging the enemy's radar) to distract the enemy so you can sneak by makes a whole lot more sense than running past them at full speed and relying on your hit points to keep you from dying.

I'm not saying this class is perfect; I personally don't care for the Gambling idea, don't think you should be able to interfere with enemy chat, and probably would have gone myself with the attributes of Stealth (hiding, and primary), Misdirection (confusing the enemy), Observation (detecting stealth and such), and Throwing Mastery (a weapon skill with small thrown weapons) - making it pretty much a pure non-spellcasting class.

And don't forget that any new class releases will have new skills released for the other classes, and any new ability is likely to have countermeasures among those new skills.

And as far as pvp goes, being able to confuse the enemy is not something to discount lightly. All other things being equal, the pvp team that works together the best is the one most likely to win. The point of a stealth class (done right) is not to create uber-effective invisible attackers, but to be able to either get in a good single shot (stealth nukers, stealth trappers) or to disrupt the enemy so that the rest of the team can do the job.

That said, there are a lot of people that just don't care about pvp at all, so even if it were "useless for pvp," it'd still wouldn't be useless (although it's a safe bet that a-net would ensure that the class was balanced for both pve and pvp).

I do want to see mob that would use Misdirection skills on you, that would be an experience...

Also I don't see any problem in giving some mob inherient ablity to detect stealth. Typcially, bestial mob would smell you out, undead have a magical sense to detect living, and some can see in differnt lights. Also can always include a scout mob who would constantly cast anti-stealth skills. Point is they could easily stop you from stealth-run should it be place that dev don't want you to sneak by.

unverified has good ideas, and I agree in calling this concept far from perfect. Afterall, it is a concept. Stealth and Misdirection attribute seem fine. I like throwing (origianlly I want to give it to Assassin) and would give it a stabler mean of damage dealing. Observation.. would seem harder to fill. (I put some anti-trap/stealth skills in the spycraft attribute)

I do try to include few ways to counter stealth by conventional means, even if you don't have any anti-stealth skills. They will be less of threat, if you could keep a cool heead.

I would hate to see a PvP or PvE only skill. Thus I would also include some additional effect to Misdirection-type of skill, so it does not just work for one and not in another.

Stealth is a very tircky idea, and really need careful implentation else would lead to easy abuse (as several game has shown in the past). Feel free to point out the possible use that would lead to such abuse (with the rule and the mechanic in the OP that is) My first draft of stealth failed due to the possible to have seveal stelath skill and constanly in hiding. Thus resulted in the addition of increase recharge time on use, and ablity to still target an invisible target (hover mouse over its location for 3+ seconds)

Feel free to suggest further improvments.

unverified · Aug 25, 2006, 06:37 AM // 06:37

My Observation concept was a lot like your spycraft (part of why I chose your version of the stealthy rogue-type to post in), and would have trap-detects as well as stealth-detects. My other ideas for Observation were like military forward observer-type skills; basically Shouts that give your part boosts to hit (or critical, or bypass armor, etc.) targets you've selected; narrower in focus than the paragon or warrior shouts, and more in line with the character's reconaissance role. Shouts like "He's got a weak spot!" which allows those that target your highlighted foe to treat him as if he's at -x armor... and of course, "He's over there!" which not only un-stealths an enemy that's stealthing, but also disables their stealth skills for x seconds...

Kool Pajamas · Aug 25, 2006, 07:04 AM // 07:04

I dont like anything of the gambling. Chance should not be a large part of the battle. It should be about your skill not some random chance that deals damage. Basing a whole attribute to this is just not a good idea.

I think any "stealth" skills would be better as add-ons to assassins in some future chapter.

chaos warrior zane · Sep 02, 2006, 09:43 AM // 09:43

i praise u for taking time to make this. although it seems a lil much like an assasin. as assasin shud have stealth to. guild wars is basicl a "fight" so a theif in my mind wudnt be much a fighter nor a supporter. it wud be a nice proffesion of some sort to somrthing like worlf of warcraft but for gw which is a fdight game i dont think a theif wud be usfull =/

Sir_Ace_Manslayer · Sep 02, 2006, 06:29 PM // 18:29

Hey i think you should add to him.......

aggro circle is a bit smaller to increase stealthy ness i also think they should do this to assasins but...

mabey something like shadowmeld in wow called shadow form where u can jus sit there as long as you do not move (cancled in any pvp tho)

and i think they would of made this already it would jus be to powerful for a running build with r/thief

DeathShadowX · Sep 02, 2006, 08:14 PM // 20:14

well this class would own because it could run like anywhere no hassle. On a negitive hand, some of the skills sound like naruto, body double xD

actionjack · Sep 03, 2006, 01:37 AM // 01:37

Thanks for the feed backs... (especially the one by DietDew)

Few of the concerns (run, stealth, addition of attack attribute) were replied before in some of the previous replies. Unverified (the anti-sheep avatar guy) also provided a good alternative of his theif concept.

Also bumping with a added picture.